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日本人って何で議論が苦手なんやろうな

1: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:45:16 ID:szd
話し込んでても「人それぞれ」とか使い出すし
gakkatsu_homeroom


2: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:46:46 ID:v3R
声大きいやつが必ず勝つし喧嘩腰やしな

3: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:47:39 ID:j2Q
議論の教育しとらんからだろ

15: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:55:46 ID:HhM
>>3
これに尽きる

4: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:47:55 ID:szd
「人それぞれ」を主張するくせに皆同調するし
控えめに言って議論する気もなければ自分の意見もないよな日本人って

5: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:48:43 ID:2I9
めんどくさいからやろ政治豚の連中は特に

6: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:49:58 ID:szd
>>5
政治関連じゃなくてもって話や 全般的に
というかそうやって見下して視界にも入れないのが日本人の悪い癖の典型例やで

10: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:52:57 ID:j2Q
>>6
そりゃさすがにネットだけの話じゃねーの?

7: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:51:30 ID:kZ8
まず前提宣言もしないで日常会話の延長線上で議論始めるしな

9: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:52:13 ID:omf
論破されたら腹立つからや

11: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:53:02 ID:cn7
最近じゃ反対意見を悪者のように仕立て上げるようなのもいる
そらまともにやりあおうという気は失せますわ

12: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:53:10 ID:7b0
この手の典型的な日本人論振りかざすやつも議論が上手いとは言い難い

14: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:55:13 ID:szd
>>12
ぐうの音も出んわ
でも何でなんやろうな

13: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:53:51 ID:8pR
日本人のやけに体裁だけを取り繕うとする気質も起因してるのかもな

18: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:59:00 ID:JpD
イメージだけで語ってるけど
言うほど国民性なんか把握出来てないよな

19: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)06:59:38 ID:szd
あと、宗教観を馬鹿にするわけじゃないけど「神がいるかいないか」っていう質問に初っ端から全否定でいるわけがないって科学論(笑)使う奴は笑うわ

金だって紙切れやろ 人々がいると信じればいるんやで

っていうことを言うと宗教バカ認定
日本人さぁ…

21: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:01:32 ID:8pR
神が存在しないことは科学的に証明できるから~って否定材料としては充分じゃないの?

22: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:01:42 ID:szd
日本人には哲学がない

っていうとどうせまたお前らも「そんなにいうなら~しろ」だとか筋違いのことを言う 他人に寛容ではないし、そのくせ厳しい

23: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:02:06 ID:szd
朝からすまんな、つくづく日本人が嫌いになったんやで

24: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:02:35 ID:KOB
多民族国家、移民国家だと文化的な背景が全く違う、価値観が絶対に合わない存在同士がとなりあって生きとるから
って部分も大きいんやろな

29: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:03:21 ID:JpD
日本はダメだここが悪いなんて言えるほど海外経験無いやろ?
もっと言えば人生経験も足りてない
社会に出ると色んな人がいるしこんな掲示板に籠ってるだけじゃいつまでも腐ったままやぞ

36: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:05:47 ID:szd
>>29
それもあるかもなぁ
スイスに留学してみたいンゴねぇ

35: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:05:13 ID:j2Q
議論出来んのは議論の仕方が身についてないから
なぜ身についてないかと言うと、教えられてないから
議論の仕方を学校で教えてないから

38: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:06:53 ID:8pR
>>35
筋道立てて教えられることがないから授業内で行われる議論は凄いハチャメチャで面白いで

40: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:07:45 ID:j2Q
ここで議論ができないと感じるのは、議題提供者がそもそも議論なんてする気がなく、結論ありきでスレ立てするから
あとは、単なる伸ばしたいだけの逆張りスレだから

45: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:09:33 ID:OPe
>>40
イッチも日本人は議論できんって決めつけてるししゃーない

48: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:10:24 ID:Hwm
>>40
一理ある
議論に勝ち負け持ち込んだらいかんでしょ

41: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:07:51 ID:szd
いや、日本人ではなくて極論云々はどの国のネットも同じようなもんやろか

44: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:09:22 ID:Hwm
海外の奴らも議論が上手いやつはあんまおらんぞ
argumentとdiscussionの区別ついてない奴は外人でも多い

46: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:10:13 ID:ghC
おんJなんかでこんなスレ建てる奴が議論なんて出来る訳ないしな

49: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:11:41 ID:8pR
>>46
経験則でしかないがむしろねらーの方が平均点日本人よりよっぽど論理的思考力に富んでいる傾向にある

50: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:11:44 ID:szd
>>46
なぜ一々マウントを取ろうとするのか(困惑)
散々ワイも議論苦手な日本人の一人って書いてるで 読めや

51: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:13:13 ID:k3f
小学校の帰りの会から見直せ

女子「今日ぉ◯◯くんがぁ、掃除をぉしていませんでしたぁ」
男子「ごめんなさぁ~い」
女子「謝れば済むという問題ではなく今回の原因と今後の方針を言うべきだと思います」
男子「そもそも僕がしていなかったことを責める以前に、女子も雑談ばかりをして形骸的な掃除をすることを改めるべきだと思います」

52: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:13:15 ID:73t
議論ってマウント取りたいからやるもんやろ!
マウントは悪と決めつける風潮が流行るのが議論が苦手な証拠や!

57: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:14:58 ID:szd
>>52
ひぇ~論破されたやで 参りましたンゴ

53: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:13:24 ID:szd
そういやもう八月やんけ
どうりで夏休みキッズが多いんやな

55: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:14:01 ID:Hwm
外人=議論がうまいなんて幻想なんだよなぁ
日本人でも外人でも一部のやつが議論うまいだけやで

59: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:15:58 ID:ghC
>>55
困ったら銃ぶっぱするだけの欧米が議論上手いは草

65: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:17:02 ID:Hwm
>>59
ID論とか動物倫理の論争みとると
欧米さんってむしろ議論下手なんかなって思います・・・

68: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:17:50 ID:ghC
>>65
議論なんかよりまず行動 がアメリカ建国から現在まで見える思考回路やで

56: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:14:36 ID:73t
マウントの取りあいで、自分が負けたと思ったら負ければええ
その潔さが無いのがアカンのや

もっとも負けたと思うまでは戦い続けるんやけどな
周りの空気で諦める根性の無さもアカンでぇ

62: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:16:31 ID:wLR
出る杭は打たれるから目立たんように日和って主義主張を表に出さんようにする傾向があるからや
ネット民が論理的嗜好に長けて見えるのはテキストである程度遂行できるからやないか

63: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:16:45 ID:szd
なんか朝からすまんかったむしゃくしゃしてたわ
ワイが全面的に悪かった、議論なんて上手くても下手でもどうでもいいンゴ
不快にさせたのなら謝るやで

66: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:17:21 ID:MgR
議論って多面的な視野を構築するためにするもんやろ?
マウントうんぬん言い始めたらwinーwinにする事できんやん

71: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:18:17 ID:Hwm
>>66
コレメンス
本来自説が崩されたほうが嬉しいもんやのにな

78: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:19:19 ID:MgR
>>71
そうなんよな
啓蒙によって自分が成長する瞬間やのにな

82: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:20:13 ID:Ixs
>>78
騙されやすくなる瞬間でもあるんや
負けたくないというのは警戒心ゆえの行動でもある

70: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:18:16 ID:jJX
対立を恐れる
議論が終わった後にいじめや嫌がらせ
をする民族性だから

72: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:18:17 ID:kZ8
人そろぞれとか価値観の違いとかは後々まで遺恨を残さない為の重要な言葉だよ

73: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:18:58 ID:w1d
行動をするのための議論じゃなくて議論する事が目的になってるからダメ
だから無駄な会議やらレスバやらが平然と蔓延る

74: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:18:59 ID:8pR
リアルは討論と議論いっしょくたにしてる馬鹿しかいなくて嫌になるよ

83: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:20:16 ID:w1d
議論の後に市民革命が起こった欧米諸国に比べたら議論した後に何も残ってこなかったのが日本や

85: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:20:33 ID:Agn
掲示板のはともかくとしてテレビの討論番組は相手が喋ってるのを遮るゴミばっかりで本当レベル低いなとは思う

88: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:20:54 ID:jJX
>>85
朝生の悪口はそれまでだ

91: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:21:57 ID:jJX
議論によってさらに上のレベルを目指し成熟させるのではなく

いかに自論が優位か主張し論理を破綻させようものなら
感情に走ってでも相手を攻撃する

97: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:23:21 ID:73t
>>91
みんな自分は賢くて成熟を目指せる人間やと思い込んでるけど
だいたい熱くなって我を忘れてマウントを取るのを目指すんや

自分は理想的な人間ではないことを自覚することからやな
理想的な議論も存在せんわけや

96: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:23:00 ID:4a7
議論する教育がそもそも少ないから

98: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:23:25 ID:MgR
>>96
家庭で会話がないからねしかたないね

108: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:26:06 ID:DNQ
大人の人間関係は命令するかされるかや
議論は無駄や、良い負かしたところで恨まれるか意固地になって逆をやるかや

109: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:26:37 ID:Hwm
>>108
一理ある

110: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:26:41 ID:73t
>>108
これ本当だから困る

116: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:28:04 ID:73t
大人になればなるほど自負が育つし、自分の成功体験から物事を決めつけるようになる
だから普段は穏やかでも、いざ意見がぶつかると絶対に自分のやり方しか認めない人が多い印象

129: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:31:35 ID:jJX
やりたくはない体験だけと
中高とかの生徒会や委員会でトップを経験すると
意見を否定するだけの非生産的発想のやつはぶん殴りたくなる
指導者の苦労がよく分かるわ

掃除は外注でええ希ガス

132: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:32:42 ID:jJX
文化祭とかで誰かが必死こいて出した意見を3秒で否定したり投票が終わってから本当はあれが良かったとかグチグチ言うやつって社会で働いていてもそのままなん?

137: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:33:41 ID:Hwm
>>132
むしろそういう奴が意外と出世したりする

144: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:37:14 ID:A9K
その議論が苦手とかいうのはどこ情報やねん
イッチがコミュ障陰キャ禿げなだけやろ

149: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:38:58 ID:MgR
>>144
議論が苦手なのが、会議が異様に多い事の一因やろなって思う

150: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)07:40:00 ID:cn7
そういやワイお互い意見言い合って議論してるの見たことないわ
大体相手の意見の否定か都合悪いところ見つけてマウント取るか

214: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)08:35:40 ID:9NA
「相手が話してるときに口を挟まない」
この最低限のルールを守れるヤツがもう1000人に1人くらいしかおらん

215: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)08:35:53 ID:Hwm
>>214
悲しいなぁ

217: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)08:36:24 ID:Avb
>>214
テレビ番組ですら途中で言ってるしほんま…ほんま…

220: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)08:37:33 ID:Cwv
意見を通した奴の勝ちとういう風潮

224: 名無しさん@おーぷん 2018/08/08(水)08:40:17 ID:kZ8
1. 他人の発言をさえぎらない
2. 話すときは、だらだらとしゃべらない
3. 話すときに、怒ったり泣いたりしない
4. わからないことがあったら、すぐに質問する
5. 話を聞くときは、話している人の目を見る
6. 話を聞くときは、他のことをしない
7. 最後まで、きちんと話を聞く
8. 議論が台無しになるようなことを言わない
9. どのような意見であっても、間違いと決めつけない
10. 議論が終わったら、議論の内容の話はしない
フィンランドの5年生がつくった議論のルール

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